MicroPoP hub homes


#1

I would like to more about this, “a constellation of overlapping MicroPoP hub homes can be deployed to handle the capacity.”

As noted on this page:

https://mimosa.co/micropop

So, let me see if I understand this. In the middle of a cluster of homes is an A5 as an AP2 to the homes around it. The hub home has to connect to AP1 via a C5 and have a router to connect AP3 to supply the new homes it, is in the middle of? So, this AP chain can can go on and on because of the router or does each new cluster have to connect to AP1?

It is a very interesting concept and would like to more.


#2

Using an A5/C5 combination as a backhaul to feed another A5 is normally not a great idea.

While it is doable, you will be limited to the bandwidth of the A5/C5 being used as a backhaul. This can be somewhat unpredictable because you will have other clients using bandwidth off of the A5. Also, while the C5 is more then good hardware for CPE, I would argue that it is not quite up to being used as a backhaul.

What most people have done is used traditional backhauls from their Micropops (the Mimosa “B” series, Ubiquiti AF24 or whatever you like) to a tower. I can’t find the story now, but there was a network in the Midwest that was highlighted and had a really good overview of their system. There is a WISP in Golden Colorado that has a simmilar system, but they use all sorts of companies for their PTMP/PTP network.

If you were to use A5/C5 combos for your backhaul network you will need to make sure you have perfect shots (no trees, buildings, etc.) and SNR (better then 31 dB). From there, I would not use a router at each AP, unless you are wanting to use something like OSPF or some other way of having backup links. (Not a bad idea, but definitely complicated to setup) Something like a Netonix Switch would probably be more then good enough.


#3

I think what they mean by “a constellation of overlapping MicroPoP hub homes can be deployed to handle the capacity.” is that you have a lot of overlapping Micro Pops that give you several options for links to from any one customer. But interconnecting of MicroPops with proper backhauls is probably not a bad idea.


#4

@jagnetadmin I have seen some using a C5 as a backhaul for another A5 Micropop hub, but I definitely wouldn’t recommend this either. It’s good for a temp solultion, but you should always have a dedicated backhaul between each point.

The B24 was designed for this specific purpose. It runs on 24GHz so you don’t take up spectrum that you need for your 5GHz micro pop deployments.


#5

I would to first, thank everyone that took the time to leave a comment. There are several ways to slice the pie I suppose. Here are my thoughts on this situation with the hub homes. If you see a problem in my thinking you won’t be the first. Ha Ha!

In the photo below:
1, 2, 3 & 4 are groups of homes.
A, B, C & D are the hub homes.

Hub homes contain 1 C5 pointed at the PTMP and hooked to a router (hEX PoE) and an A5.
Group homes have a C5 pointed at the closest A5 with good line of site.

With OSPF enabled, the hub homes and group homes are going to send data to the closest connection point available to it and will basically find the least busiest path.

So, a group home that may point at two A5’s (the one closest to it and the one past it) will send data to the least busy / shortest path first. RIP could never do that.

I see the A5 as a way to open up new territory that is like what is shown in the photo above however, it may be better to run the groups lined up in front of the PTMP instead of away from it in the beginning.

I would not run A5’s more three deep in the beginning, this will cause an early bottleneck and premature upgrade of the PTMP.

Once I need to go four deep (away from the PTMP), I would move the two A5’ in group 1 and 3 and place them at groups 5 and 6 then, add one N5-360 with an A5c radio to cover groups 1 and 2.

What I see is a network path back to the PTMP. If one part of the network is busy, data will flow to a less busy part of the path.

This web page:

https://mimosa.co/micropop

Says, “The A5 has the ability to make efficient use of available spectrum. Self-interference from client devices and other access points previously limited the ability of legacy wireless networks to support clients at the density. With Mimosa’s TDMA GPS technology, network-wide synchronization is possible. This allows the same channel to be used across multiple sets of access points and clients. This is the most efficient way to use scarce spectrum.”

So, if the A5’s are on the same channel and over-lap and also, have access to a C5 pointing at the tower, then, is it possible there is more ways available to get data back to the PTMP in throughput than one thinks at first glance? This may be very well true. I do not see this scenario as having any major problems except for the PTMP. This is going to be the bottleneck at some point and needs to be upgraded as well as the demand for throughput increases. However, this may be the key to pushing that Gagabit into that community, using an array of two or four antennas instead of one. Setup like the photo below.

c5stack

The two C5’s on the right are set to transmit and the two on the left set to receive. This is an inexpensive approach and should eliminate the bottle neck until 1 gigabit antennas like, the B5 can be added; by that time comes the community will have grown quite a bit and the expense won’t hurt as much.

I am left with two questions at the moment though.
1.) Why the heck is the A5 as much as the N5-360 and A5c? Those A5’s need to come down a bit so they are a better startup for communities like this. My $.02
2.) Who is going to pay for all this?

Well, there are my thoughts for today. Thanks for tuning in and allow me to spew my thoughts all over your beautiful website!


#6

OSPF does not handle busy links, it only can monitor if a link is up or down. (I am pretty certain of this, feel free to correct me) so all OSPF will do is allow you to interconnect each group to avoid portions of the network going down from just one bad link.

If I am reading you correctly, it sounds like you still want to use A and C as steps to get connections for B and C. I have done this exactly, it works, but you are basically splitting one customers worth of connection among all the people on B and C.

Why are you changing the A5s in groups 1 and 3 to one N5-360/A5c? you would be loosing overall throughput, probably, and loosing an access point.

What you drew in your picture of each access point having a connection back to the PTMP (probably would be best if you used a C5c for AP B and C) would work alright, but remember you are trading cost for simplicity and speed. You can only trade so much before you run into hard bottle necks.

It does not look like you are going very far. I would recomend you use 8 C5c radios paired up with some decent AirFiber antennas to feed you access points. As you links get more busy you can replace each C5c link with a “B” Product and then you can use the old C5c radios for more clients or for a new AP.

Secondarily, Mimosa uses a version of discourse.org


#7

WoW! I did not know you had replied to this. I was not saying that is the way it is. I was just trying figure it out. Still doing a lot of reading on how to get a signal to basically, relay it’s way out of a community. Not sure if that is possible. If the 360’s overlap and communicate on the same channel, theoretically they should be able to forward. Maybe I am thinking too far out of the box or this is not even a possibility. OSPF (open shortest path first) to my understanding in routing, means packets will be sent to the open, shortest, path, first. Since all homes are pointing to a 360 and all 360’s are interlinked, then, is it possible if one 360 is busy, would a packet take another 360 route because it matches OSPF?

I wonder about this possibility, after seeing antennas with multiple radios which are capable of handling more data throughput than an antenna with one radio. Is it not possible to mesh all the 360’s in a community to have the same effect? Sorry, if I got off path with this topic. Just trying figure out the best way to use this setup of micro pop’s.


#8

Glad to hear back from you.

Currently Mimosa does not have a product that can Both act as an AP and connect to other APs at the same time. So at the moment, while theoretically possible, this would not be doable with Mimosa hardware. (as an aside, its called “repeating” which will significantly slow down the overall throughput of your network, it is widely not considered a good idea.)

As I said, OSPF is only a path finding protocol, if a link is too busy to send more traffic down it OSPF will fail the path and cause a recalculation which means you have a downtime of 1-30 seconds. OSPF does not have any way to deal with temporary blockages like too much bandwidth going down a link. It also is not have a way to define a changing wireless link state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Shortest_Path_First#Operation

Not sure what you mean here, could you give an example?

If you really want to do a mesh you should know 2 things: 1. They are very hard to setup, maintain, diagnose and struggle with large amounts of throughput. 2. Mimosa equipment does not do mesh. The closest you could get to a mesh is having a PTP link between each of your 360 antennas and back to your main tower then having a router at EACH location to do the meshing for you. This would be rather expensive and a ton of parts to manage. (though, it kinda sounds like it would be fun to setup)